labradore

"We can't allow things that are inaccurate to stand." — The Word of Our Dan, February 19, 2008.

Friday, December 15, 2006

A question for Sue Kelland-Dyer

She won't answer it anywhere else.

She won't even allow it to be asked on her own blog.

So here goes, again:

Sue:

Do you support an "infeed" line to bring Labrador hydro power to Newfoundland? Is it part of your self-styled expert vision for the development of the so-called Lower Churchill? Yes or no? And for good measure, why or why not?

12 Comments:

At 12:18 PM, December 15, 2006 , Blogger Sue said...

That would be question right?
Do I support an infeed to the island?
Here's the answer - if we are going to export the power from Labrador to Ontario Quebec Nova Scotia New Brunswick New England etc. instead of using it in Labrador for industry - it would be better for everybody if we put an infeed to the Island for industry. However if the power were to be used in Labrador for industry (which is what I advocate)- let it all stay there and generate maximum wealth in that region. This also benefits everybody.
To use the resource to pump up industry outside Newfoundland and Labrador is the worst scenario and incidentally what portion of that export revenue do you expect Danny would spend in Labrador?
My vision would see industry coming to Labrador to get the power - which by the way they would if the government did not keep advertising its inevitable export. Why do you believe it cannot be done in Labrador? Why do you think industry won't come to Labrador? It will go to the far reaches of everywhere else to get reliable renewable hydropower.
Why do you not believe in Labrador's industrial potential?
Have a look at HQ and tell me what the company does.

 
At 12:45 PM, December 15, 2006 , Blogger WJM said...

Why do you not believe in Labrador's industrial potential?

Why do you insist on imputing motive with your questions? You are more like Danny Williams than you admit.

Which industries would be inclined to locate in Labrador if there were access to Labrador power in Newfoundland? Would Labrador lose any locational advantage to power, if that same power were available in an area, such as Newfoundland, that has a longer navigation season?

Which industry will come to Labrador? Which ones? Please name them. Which ones would locate in Labrador if Labrador's energy were exported to Newfoundland?

 
At 1:00 PM, December 15, 2006 , Blogger Sue said...

what a perversion....
Labrador energy for Labrador industry - sorry I don't give you the answer you want...I support and believe in Labrador's potential...

 
At 4:27 PM, December 15, 2006 , Blogger Mark said...

"However if the power were to be used in Labrador for industry..."

Knowing that the possibility of further large-scale Hydro development in Labrador has been simmering for 20 years or more, I am certain that Sue will be able to provide us with a list of these "industrialists" who are champing at the bit to relocate to Labrador.

Why does every economic development scheme have to be premised on the "if we build it they will come" model? It's been proven catastrophic time and time again. Rubber boots and chocolate factories, hydroponics, etc.

Industry is not going come to Labrador. It will either develop there by the smart ingenuitice people who live there, or it won't. It isn't going to get up and leave one place to go to another, not without some form of large scale corporate welfar. Another (hopefully) debunked approach. Discounting locally produced power to local industrialists/entrepreneurs is fine, but imagining that the world is going to get up and relocate it's industrial presence from elsewhere to Labrador, on account of our building one hydro dam is preposterous.

 
At 4:28 PM, December 15, 2006 , Blogger Mark said...

typo - I meant "ingenuitive"

 
At 6:29 PM, December 15, 2006 , Blogger WJM said...

I support and believe in Labrador's potential...

Then why do you want an infeed to Newfoundland?

 
At 11:33 AM, December 17, 2006 , Blogger mt.pearligan said...

The naysayers should check out the history of the Kitimat smelter in Northern BC. Labrador has the advantage of the Labrador-LNS railway which could likely be used for transport. That's above and beyond the provincial governments getting their asses in gear to develop highways in the region. industry could definitely be developed there and should.

Also Mark industrialists won't be championing the cause of building industry in Labrador when they're expecting to get the same cheap energy in Ontario or Quebec. If it's gonna come to you why go to it? The only way they will start taking interest is if the province announces that all energy (or a portion of it) produced from the Lower Churchill will be used in the province.

 
At 11:44 AM, December 17, 2006 , Blogger WJM said...

The naysayers should check out the history of the Kitimat smelter in Northern BC.

Kitimat is on ice-free tidewater.

Labrador has the advantage of the Labrador-LNS railway which could likely be used for transport.

For some commodities, mainly those which are already produced, or could be, in Labrador.

For most others, though, it would make no sense to handle them twice at Sept-Iles and ship them twice on the railway.

Also Mark industrialists won't be championing the cause of building industry in Labrador when they're expecting to get the same cheap energy in Ontario or Quebec.

Or, if the Newfoundland crypto-separatists like Sue and the — snicker — Newfoundland and Labrador Defense League get their way, in Newfoundland.

If there's an "infeed" from Labrador to Newfoundland, Labrador has no locational advantage at all.

If it's gonna come to you why go to it? The only way they will start taking interest is if the province announces that all energy (or a portion of it) produced from the Lower Churchill will be used in the province.

In "the province"?

Or in Labrador?

 
At 6:26 PM, December 17, 2006 , Blogger mt.pearligan said...

Kitimat is on ice-free tidewater.

True but my point is that is was also an undeveloped hinterland until government and industry invested heavily into its development. I don't at Labrador as a complete write-off when it comes to industrial development because of lack of ice-free ports.

For some commodities, mainly those which are already produced, or could be, in Labrador.

For most others, though, it would make no sense to handle them twice at Sept-Iles and ship them twice on the railway.


Considering that you don't seem to believe in the possibility of industrial development in Labrador (from what I gather) what products "could be" developed in Labrador? What do you mean handled twice and shipped twice at Sept-Iles? Why not simply transfer goods from a railcar arriving from Lab City to a ship waiting in Sept-Iles? Isn't that routine anywhere else?

You are saying, essentially, that where goods are produced inland all over the world and transported to ports for onward shipment the same model could not be repeated in Labrador. I don't get it - are you saying industrial development does not happened, and has not happened in places that are not ports?

Or, if the Newfoundland crypto-separatists like Sue and the — snicker — Newfoundland and Labrador Defense League get their way, in Newfoundland.

If there's an "infeed" from Labrador to Newfoundland, Labrador has no locational advantage at all.


Speaking for the Newfoundland and Labrador Defense League to brainwashed devotees of dysfunctional federalism we advocate use of Labrador power for industrial purposes in Labrador. While we're also supportive of an infeed to the island Labrador is the priority in this case and if it required a set limit on the amount of power to be transferred that would be fine.

In "the province"?

Or in Labrador?


Labrador primarily.

 
At 1:16 AM, December 18, 2006 , Blogger WJM said...

I don't at Labrador as a complete write-off when it comes to industrial development because of lack of ice-free ports.

I don't either. However (a) there's a fairly low ceiling for that induced industry, and (b) it gets even lower once you make that power available for industrial use anywhere other than in Labrador, including in Newfoundland.

Considering that you don't seem to believe in the possibility of industrial development in Labrador (from what I gather)

You gather wrong.

what products "could be" developed in Labrador?

Manganese separation from Wabush and possibly Lac Bloom or LabMag comes most immediately to mind, in addition to Lac Bloom and LabMag themselves.

I wonder though how Quebec will feel about Quebec ore being processed in Labrador....

What do you mean handled twice and shipped twice at Sept-Iles? Why not simply transfer goods from a railcar arriving from Lab City to a ship waiting in Sept-Iles?

Where is that railcar arriving from?

Take the usual big-ticket power consumer, aluminum smelting. If you are going to do that in, say, western Labrador, you have to unload the bauxite, rail it to Labrador, turn it and the necessary power into refined aluminum, rail it back to Sept-Iles, and load it back onto a ship.

Not cost-effective when there are Kitimat- or Sept-Iles type arrangements already out there. Definitely not feasible if the power from Labrador is transmitted to Newfoundland.

Isn't that routine anywhere else?

Nope.

You are saying, essentially, that where goods are produced inland all over the world and transported to ports for onward shipment the same model could not be repeated in Labrador.

What goods are transported from continent to continent for processing on a large scale far from tidewater?

Speaking for the Newfoundland and Labrador Defense League to brainwashed devotees of dysfunctional federalism we advocate use of Labrador power for industrial purposes in Labrador. While we're also supportive of an infeed to the island Labrador is the priority in this case

Labrador is used to being a "priority". That word has been bandied about by Newfoundlanders so long it's lost all meaning.

and if it required a set limit on the amount of power to be transferred that would be fine.

A set limit of 0 would be nice. Damn some of your own rivers if you want hydro.

In "the province"?

Or in Labrador?


Labrador primarily.

But not exclusively?

Then there is no industrial advantage to Labrador.

 
At 1:23 AM, December 18, 2006 , Blogger WJM said...

Labrador primarily.

If Labrador primarily, then that means only a small portion of the power would be transmitted to Newfoundland.

Question: Would this be economical? Would not the economies of scale make it more effective to generate power locally in Newfoundland, than to build a $2-billion transmission line (that's a lowball estimate) to transmit a small amount of power?

 
At 5:53 PM, December 27, 2006 , Blogger bagwatts said...

Questions like: Is there an infeed to the Island? and who are we selling the energy to and why? and How does industry fit into this plan? should really be answered BEFORE you start yakking to everyone and their dog about it in Ottawa and other locales. This type of disorganized and unprepared thinking is no different than building a house without a blueprint. It's all idiotic but alas no surprise to others. The answer? Bringing in more people who are NOT from here and who have NO connection to anyone here. Nothing stunts growth and progress quite like rampant generational nepotism. Honest to God, there isn't even any shame about the obvious criminal activity that represents politics in Newfoundland and Labrador and it is quite literally shocking to anyone not from here. I'm surprised this entire government hasn't sunk the confederation building in it's own bullshit. To anyone from anywhere else the shennanigans performed by any governing body past or present are so dumb and assinine as to be laughable. If a person left Newfoundland for twenty years and returned it would be like entering an alternate reality where time stands still and nothing relevant or different happens. Places are supposed to change over time, NOT remain the same. People with morals have such a damn hard time in this province. A damn hard time indeed.

 

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