Of reductivist anecdotal sleveens
Riosel Mac Oianghir is a sleeveen, according to Michael Collins of Placentia, the Former French Capital of Newfoudland, responding in a Telegram Forum piece last weekend to Wangersky's daring to question the Great Irish Exaggeration:
I was frustrated to read that Russell Wangersky considers Newfoundland to be no more Irish than Syracuse, N.Y. He never substantiates or cites his source when he claims that a mere one-fifth of Newfoundlanders are of Irish descent. I suspect it is the Canadian census.Yes, the Canadian census. Or, as Bill Rowe, on the Two-Hour Daily Hate, would call it, the Federal census. The C-word and the F-word, dirty both, in certain quarters. (The Newfoundland or Provincial or Republican census, one imagines, are inherently more accurate.)
Collins continues:
I am of Irish descent, but I would not describe myself as Irish to a census taker; my ethnic identity is Newfoundlander. Yet, my name, my language, my music, and my cultural heritage are all directly derived from Ireland. The number varies depending on the source you consult, but as many as 80 per cent of Newfoundlanders have Irish ancestors on at least one side of their family tree.All well, and probably true, as it certainly is, even of this Labradorian.
But what of the other side and various branches of their family trees?
Collins says:
Wangersky is being incredibly reductive to judge the province as a whole.Reductive? Reductive!??!?
Wanna know what else is reductive?
Overstating the Irishness of Newfoundland, let alone the entire province:
Because of our geography, there are wide regional variations. The Southern Shore and Cape Shore are almost entirely Irish, for example. I do not know any exact figures for the Southern Shore, but I may inform you that the Cape Shore was fully, completely, 100 per cent Irish throughout the 19th century, and remains largely so today.especially when the province as a whole shows a remarkable diversity of historic settlement patterns and ethnic origins, with, as Collins notes, "wide regional variations", of which an Irish-dominant variation is only to be found in one geographically small part amongst that "wide regional variation".
Collins continues:
Even look to our language. The most ubiquitous of Newfoundlandisms, "b'y," is not ours at all, but a common Waterford expression. Many other supposedly unique Newfoundland words have Celtic roots.Says the writer who just warned against anecdotal evidence!
Stemmoo. Shoony. Komatik. Mishytuck. Coomies. Makushan. Musquash. Tabanask. Bucky. Anuk. Ouk, ouk, ouk, edder, edder, edder. How Innu and Inuit we are! After all, so many words have entered into the Labrador English vernacular from Innu-eimun and Inuktitut, surely to goodness the whole province, or the province as a whole, must be the same way!
Right?
Collins concludes:
As several scholars of the Irish diaspora have remarked, Newfoundland is the most Irish place in the world outside of Ireland. Russell Wangersky is nothing but a sleeveen for trying to argue any different.It would be interesting to know who these scholars are, what the metric unit for Irishness is, and how which other places stack up when measured by it.
Collins seems to be offended, not that someone would dare question the vastly-overstated case for Newfoundland's Irishness, or even the premise that Newfoundlanders might want to try being Newfoundlanders instead of something else, but that Wangersky is denying the degree of Irishness that does exist.
Even if Mac Oianghir does no such thing.
But has it come to this, that you cannot even argue for "right-sizing" the Newfoundland-Irish connection, without being called a "sleveen"?
Is Talamh an Eisc nationalism so insecure that it cannot withstand, or even stand, the Irish connection being placed in its broader and proper cultural and historical context?
It would be intellectually dishonest for anyone to minimize, let alone deny, the Irish influence in Newfoundland and Labrador. But it is just as dishonest to overstate it, and to deny, as the Talamh an Eisc crowd so often do, if (usually) by implication or omission, that the other cultural influences — French (hello, Placentia!), Inuit, Basque, English, Nova Scotian, Micmac, Channel Islands, Acadian, West Country, Scottish, Innu, Canadian — are either less worthy or absent.
The person who looks at the big picture, the entire province, and its whole, diverse, cultural heritage, that person, Michael Collins, is not the "sleveen" in this debate.
Whatever a "sleveen" is.
posted by WJM @ 7:38 PM
4 Comments:
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I was rather afraid I'd be accused of ad hominem with the "sleveen" remark, but it was a rhetorical gamble I made to show that, while Newfoundland is NOT Irish, much of what we would consider Newfoundland culture is INFLUENCED by Irish culture.
The Canadian census is absolutely correct. Its findings are in no way suspect, and I'm offended you insinuate that I'd claim otherwise (straw man, sir, straw man --- you have no idea whether or not I'm a Newfoundland Nationalist or a Raging Federalist, but you've constructed me as the former to easier knock me down). There are relatively few Irish people living in Newfoundland and Labrador. However, there are a heck of a lot of Newfoundlanders from regions like the Southern Avalon, where the Irish influence hugely outweighs all others.
Therefore, the Census is a very poor tool to use in building a case that Newfoundland is actually not very Irish after all. I am not Irish. A census would not record me as Irish. Much of my cultural heritage, though, is Irish.
Labrador has always been culturally and geographically distinct. We are partners but we are not the same. I'm sure Labradorians are more keen to remember that than Newfoundlanders. We are part of each other, but we are a big province with room for many.
The French were driven from Placentia in 1713, by the way. The current local culture is very strongly Anglo-Irish --- there is French history, but very little of the region's culture reflects that. Port-au-Port and Bay St. George would be a much more fitting epicentre for a modern Newfoundland-France connection (which sorely needs strengthening).
Perhaps I should have adopted a more positive tone in my letter, but I had a proverbial bee in my bonnet (I'm sure you understand, judging from the tone in much of your blog).
I don't see why the relative success of the Ireland-Newfoundland connection has to be torn down just so other cultural elements don't feel insignificant. Why aren't there cultural exchanges occurring with Devon and Cornwall, the Channel Islands, and so forth? Rather than whining about Irish-Newfoundland's high profile, its success should inspire others to similar heights.
By the way, "the most Irish place in the world outside of Ireland" is almost an old chestnut in Irish diaspora studies. I don't have access to an academic library here in Placentia, but a simple google search will turn up a few instances of its use.
Finally, I believe you have mistaken as an anecdote my use of "b'y" as an example of Irish linguistic heritage. An anecdote is a short tale narrating an interesting or amusing biographical incident. I merely stated a fact.
Here is an anecdote, though: one of the world's top James Joyce scholars has said in conversation with members of my graduate English class that St. John's just may be the closest thing to Joyce's Dublin remaining in the world (as Dublin itself has changed so drastically since then). A weak piece of evidence, but intriguing none the less, no?
By the way, I can't tell if you legitimately don't know what a sleveen is or if you are simply being bitter, ironic, and cynical.
Maybe you have never heard of it. But I have never heard of, and would not understand, a single example from the following: "Stemmoo. Shoony. Komatik. Mishytuck. Coomies. Makushan. Musquash. Tabanask. Bucky. Anuk."
This only goes to further the argument that Newfoundland still has much regional variation (and I would hope it continues to do so, as it makes us interesting, rich, and strong). I'm sure Labrador is indeed very much influenced by Innu and Inuit. But just as you know and maybe use the above, I am very familiar with and regularly use sleveen, streel, angishore, and so forth.
Both I and the other commentator from Placentia acknowledged this regional variation. There is Irish to some degree in most parts of Newfoundland and Labrador, but it is a parent culture only on the Avalon and in certain pockets (like Tilting on Fogo).
I was rather afraid I'd be accused of ad hominem with the "sleveen" remark, but it was a rhetorical gamble I made to show that, while Newfoundland is NOT Irish, much of what we would consider Newfoundland culture is INFLUENCED by Irish culture.
Absolutely. No one denies that, or at least not me.
But the Irish influence is, all too often, much overstated, while other elements of cultural influence are downplayed or forgotten. Not necessarily deliberately. But these things must be viewed on balance. It's as wrong to overstate the Irish influence, or the English, as it is to understate or deny it.
The Canadian census is absolutely correct. Its findings are in no way suspect, and I'm offended you insinuate that I'd claim otherwise
Why? You seemed to use the word "Canadian" with that same sneering attitude you hear from Bill Rowe or Danny Williams.
you have no idea whether or not I'm a Newfoundland Nationalist or a Raging Federalist
Nope. I do have such an idea.
However, there are a heck of a lot of Newfoundlanders from regions like the Southern Avalon, where the Irish influence hugely outweighs all others.
Yup. But the Southern Avalon is but one small part of the province. No one denies the heavy Irish influence in that region. But, similarly, no one, or very few, seem to question the "projection" of the Southern Avalon's self-image onto the whole province.
Very few areas of the province have Irish as the dominant cultural overlay or dominant historic source of settlement. Really.
Therefore, the Census is a very poor tool to use in building a case that Newfoundland is actually not very Irish after all.
Why not? You are making the mistaken assumption that "Irish" as an ethnic self-description for census purposes, means "born in Ireland". It does not.
Labrador has always been culturally and geographically distinct.
Distinct from what? The island of Newfoundland, yes. The Southern Avalon, yes. But so, too, most of the rest of the island of Newfoundland is also distinct from the Southern Avalon.
The French were driven from Placentia in 1713, by the way. The current local culture is very strongly Anglo-Irish --- there is French history, but very little of the region's culture reflects that.
Absolutely. But there are still parts of the province which have French influences, or Acadian, or Channel Islands, or Nova Scotian, or Aboriginal, etc., etc.
I don't project Labrador cultures onto the Southern Avalon; why do you project the Southern Avalon onto the province?
I don't see why the relative success of the Ireland-Newfoundland connection
Which connection? Which success?
Yes, there's a historic connection (just as there is with the almost-officially-erased West Country connection.)
But what's the successful modern connection, other than a never-ending series of provincial government junkets? How much trade does the province as a whole have with Ireland, as compared with any other jurisdiction?
Why aren't there cultural exchanges occurring with Devon and Cornwall, the Channel Islands, and so forth?
In no small measure because the provincial government doesn't put as much state-sanctioned ra-ra emphasis, or money, into them.
Rather than whining about Irish-Newfoundland's high profile, its success should inspire others to similar heights.
I'm not "whining" about its "high profile"; I object to the overplaying of it, and the equal downplaying of other cultural influences.
By the way, "the most Irish place in the world outside of Ireland" is almost an old chestnut in Irish diaspora studies.
Which "place" is that? The Southern Avalon? I wouldn't doubt it, even as a relatively uninformed dilettante. But Bonavista Bay? Port au Port? The Northern Pen? South Coast? Newfoundland as a whole? The province as a whole? Not a chance.
Finally, I believe you have mistaken as an anecdote my use of "b'y" as an example of Irish linguistic heritage.
Without a doubt it's of Irish extraction. That's not what makes it anecdotal.
What makes it anecdotal is to use it to project an Irishness, or rather a degree of Irishness onto Newfoundland and Labrador English, that isn't there.
Here is an anecdote, though: one of the world's top James Joyce scholars has said in conversation with members of my graduate English class that St. John's just may be the closest thing to Joyce's Dublin remaining in the world (as Dublin itself has changed so drastically since then). A weak piece of evidence, but intriguing none the less, no?
Absolutely! Another part of the Avalon Peninsula demonstrates some Irish influence.
What about the other peninsulas? and Bays? and Labradors?
By the way, I can't tell if you legitimately don't know what a sleveen is or if you are simply being bitter, ironic, and cynical.
No idea. I hear it used, and it seems to have a negative context, and I could look it up in the DNE I suppose, but never having used the word myself, I have no idea what it means.
But I have never heard of, and would not understand, a single example from the following: "Stemmoo. Shoony. Komatik. Mishytuck. Coomies. Makushan. Musquash. Tabanask. Bucky. Anuk."
Then we are in the same, if mirror-imaged, boats. Those words will be as well known to a certain region and element of the provincial population, as "sleveen" will be in the Southern Avalon.
But just as you know and maybe use the above, I am very familiar with and regularly use sleveen, streel, angishore, and so forth.
I know of "angishore", vaguely, from our study of Ted Russell's works in grade school. Sleveen? Streel? No idea, really.
There is Irish to some degree in most parts of Newfoundland and Labrador
The same can be said of West Country English, but it doesn't have the imprimatur of state approval.
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